One type of plot hole that is often the easiest to dispel is a “plot hole” based on a character’s decisions. People in real life often make decisions that seem out of character, so trying to prove that a character in a movie is making a decision that doesn’t make any sense for them is a near impossible task. So this installment of my series of articles focused on explaining away some of the supposed plot holes in Avengers: Endgame is going to be easy. That’s because this whole article is devoted to the idea that the Avengers’ Infinity Stone time heist makes no sense because the times they chose to go to were unreasonably difficult.
If you haven’t read my previous article on Endgame, check it out (The Stretched (yet stable) Reality of Avengers: Endgame). I explain exactly where I’m getting my list of plot holes to discuss. In short, these ideas are coming from one specific article (10 Things That Made Absolutely No Sense in Avengers: Endgame), but I’ve seen people across social media make similar statements. There are ten main points in the article I’m reacting to, and I am now on point two. So here we go.
Six stones and a rock solid plan. Almost.
Six stones and a rock solid plan. Almost.
The second main point in the article asks why the Avengers chose the specific points in time they did for the time heist. The argument made is that the times they chose were more difficult than they needed to be. However, they explicitly explain in Endgame why they chose those points in time.
The Avengers only had enough Pym particles for one round trip each through time. Convenient, sure, but not unreasonable. With the exception of the Soul Stone, at least one person present in the room when they were discussing their plan had come in contact with each of the other five stones. With no do-overs, they wanted to go to places (and times) where they knew for absolute fact where the stones were. They also wanted to go in as few groups as possible so they would have as much backup as possible for each heist.
Nebula and War Machine go for the Power Stone. The article states that 2014 was a terrible time to go to because, as Nebula tells Rhodey, lots of people were after the Power Stone then. That’s true enough. Peter Quill, Thanos, Ronan, Gamora, and The Collector were all after the stone as the first Guardians of the Galaxy movie began, and even more were after it as the movie went along. But Nebula knew for a fact that Quill found it first, and she knew he found it on Morag. That’s why they went there at that time. The stone would have still been there if they had gone to a time slightly before Peter Quill arrived, but surprising Quill and using his own tools to steal the stone was the most efficient and simple way to accomplish their goal. Nebula knew they had the element of surprise on their side, and she knew Quill wouldn’t be difficult to deal with at that time.
The writer of the article suggests that going to Xandar after the Guardians left it there would have been easier, but I really don’t think that’s true. Trying to take an Infinity Stone from someone with an army who knows what the Power Stone is and what it can do would be vastly more difficult than taking if from a single person who has no clue. Quill had no clue.
Next up, Black Widow and Hawkeye went after the Soul Stone on Vormir. Nebula knew that the stone was on Vormir and had been there for a very long time. The Avengers could have gone to Vormir at any time, so it made sense for Natasha and Clint to go with Nebula and Rhodey since they were already using the Benatar to get to Morag.
Thor and Rocket went to Asgard in 2013 to pull the Reality Stone (in the form of the Aether) from Jane Foster’s body. This is pretty obviously the most opportune time since the only other real opportunity would have been to steal it from The Collector. Surely Thor and Rocket could have done that, but tricking Jane with Thor himself (albeit a Thor with a beer belly) would be way easier than dealing with someone who knew what he had and would do anything to keep it. Of course, Rocket’s plan didn’t go smoothly, but he still managed to get the job done on his own while Thor spent some much-needed quality time with his mother.
The plan to go to New York in 2012 to pick up the Time, Space, and Mind Stones is where it starts to get tricky. Black Widow pointed out that there would be three stones in New York at one time (though that was an assumption that wasn’t guaranteed to be accurate), so sending a larger group of Avengers to that time made the most sense.
There were very few good times to try to get the Mind Stone. The Avengers knew for certain that it was in Loki’s scepter and would be changing hands after the battle of New York, so that was their best chance to get it with as little resistance as possible. And that’s exactly what they did. Knowing that the scepter would be much more difficult to obtain once it was in Hydra’s hands (because they took it away from Hydra at the beginning of Age of Ultron), Steve Rogers used his knowledge of Hydra’s infiltration of S.H.I.E.L.D. to cause enough confusion to easily slip away with the Mind Stone.
The Space Stone is probably the stone that the Avengers have had the most contact with, and therefore they had the most options as far as times to try to grab it. The Space Stone first appeared on-screen housed in the Tesseract in Captain America: The First Avenger. However, the first mention of the Tesseract was in Howard Stark’s journals all the way back in Iron Man 2. Since the start of the MCU, the Soul Stone has appeared in one form or another in nine movies. That’s a lot of times to pick from.
Like the Mind Stone though, the handoff after the Battle of New York seems like the safest and most logical time to try to take it for the Avengers. For one thing, all of the original six Avengers knew exactly where the Tesseract would be after taking it from Loki and before it was taken to Asgard. Tony and Thor also knew firsthand about the struggle with Alexander Pierce in the lobby of Stark Tower. This was as perfect a time as any to steal the Tesseract with minimal interference. Unfortunately Tony and Scott failed, so they had to come up with something else.
They could have tried to find Loki in 2012 after he stole the thing Tony and Scott were trying to steal, but that search could have taken years. They might have never found him. But why didn’t they just go to another time in the first place? The writer of the article suggests that going to Asgard in 2013 with Thor and Rocket would have been easier and should have been their plan from the start. The Tesseract was in Odin’s Vault at the time, but there’s a big problem with this plan. Odin’s Vault was heavily guarded.
The Einherjar warriors protected Odin’s Vault. Anyone trying to take anything from the vault would have to get past them. Even if they had Thor go try to take the Tesseract from the vault, the guards and Odin himself would likely have many questions. Since Thor wasn’t exactly acting like his past self in Endgame, it’s doubtful that he would have succeeded in convincing his father to let him take the Tesseract. Beyond the fact that Thor already had a job to do which he failed to even attempt (distracting Jane Foster), the rest of the Avengers clearly didn’t trust Thor in his current state in Endgame. They said as much when he offered to use the Infinity Stones to snap everyone back. Also, it’s unlikely that Odin would trust that the out-of-shape version of Thor was his real son. So no, going to Asgard for the Tesseract wasn’t a good idea.
No other time besides New York in 2012 was a solid enough plan for the Avengers. Steve and Tony went back to a S.H.I.E.L.D. facility in 1970 to eventually obtain the Space Stone, but even that was somewhat of a gamble. Tony only knew the stone was ever there because of his father’s journals, but he obviously could not have been absolutely sure it was there at that precise time. Plus, we know from Captain Marvel that the Tesseract wasn’t always held at a S.H.I.E.L.D. facility even when it was in their possession, so that’s why Steve was reluctant to go. Any time besides the Battle of New York was a bigger gamble than they were willing to take. At least initially.
And finally, there’s the Time Stone. With all of the Avengers’ planning they actually got this one wrong, at least partially. Tony, Bruce, and Thor had all visited Dr. Strange in the New York Sanctum, and they all knew he was in possession of the Time Stone when they met him. They all met Strange well after the Battle of New York though. It can be assumed that they all thought Stephen Strange had been at his sanctum for years, but as Bruce found out when he traveled back to 2012, that was not the case.
The retrieval of the Time Stone could have gone very wrong very easily. As the Sorcerer Supreme in 2012, the Ancient One guarded the Eye of Agamotto within which the Time Stone was contained. The Ancient One didn’t live in New York though, she lived in Kamar-Taj. She was only in New York at that specific time in 2012 because of the Chitauri invasion led by Loki. Knowing that the New York Sanctum was in danger, the Ancient One was there to protect it. Her presence was hardly a guarantee, and without a little luck, the Avengers would likely have never found the Time Stone in 2012. Of course, the Avengers couldn’t have known any of this, but it’s interesting that they made such a big assumption about the whereabouts of the Time Stone when they played it safe with most of their other plans.
I think that about covers it. I’m sure people can come up with other times they think might have been better for the time heist, but the point stands that for the Avengers, the times they chose made the most sense to them with the knowledge they had. So no, there is no plot hole here. Join me in my next article as I take a look at some suggestions that the rules of the quantum realm and the stones themselves have changed from movie to movie!